paft ([info]paft) wrote,
@ 2008-05-05 12:25:00
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Entry tags:bad reason, the internet

Lies, Damn Lies, and...
Mark Twain once wrote that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. There are also lies, damn lies, and cites. One of the first things I learned when I started discussing issues online is that when someone offers a cite that can be tracked down, eight times out of ten it:

A) doesn’t say what the person claims it says,

B) directly contradicts what the person claims it says,

or,

C) consists entirely of an opinion piece that merely echoes the opinion cited by the original poster without offering any factual backup that can be checked.

Keep in mind, by the way, that I started online in the early 1980s, back when computer bulletin board discussions tended to be longer, more detailed and frankly, a lot more intelligent. Even then, there were people who either didn’t understand what a “cite” was, or did and assumed that the other person wouldn’t bother to check it. Before links and online resources were common, that was not an entirely unwarranted assumption. The fact that I had access to a good library and learned early on how to use hardcopy resources like periodical archives, statistical abstracts, and the Readers Guide to Periodical Literature gave me a definite leg up.

Today, even with online databases and archives and quick access through links, an inability to grasp the importance of facts is even more endemic. The abstract, non-physical community of the Internet apparently makes it easier for a poster to announce “The sky is brown” and not only stick to it, but count on a bevy of other posters who will repeat in chorus “The sky is brown” until people stop being startled by it and just accept it as another opinion upon which sane and intelligent people can disagree.



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[info]judywatt
2008-05-05 07:39 pm UTC (link)
I have been using computers since before pc's were invented too.... and while I used to be really hooked into online political discussion forums, I don't miss them one bit. Too many loonies out there.

And Iam not the least bit interested in other people's opinions anymore, for the most part.

Most people base their opinions on nothing at all or just their feeeeelings about something, with no facts involved. They do not know the difference between knowledge and belief, and they do not care to learn either.

It was different online before AOL. The whole demographic was different. After that, it went downhill fast as far as the intelligence level and critical thinking abilities (and simple reading comprehension level) of the masses online.

So much for progress online! :)

Some things about the web are much better than in the olden days, but some are definitely not.

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[info]paft
2008-05-05 07:58 pm UTC (link)
Yep. I'm still interested, though, because irrationality has always fascinated me. I've noticed that when it suits people (as in, when they suddenly notice that an issue affects them directly) they will frequently become quite well-informed and logical.

Do they even teach critical thinking in school any more? I was at least taught in college the difference between a good reference and a bad one. I had to learn it in order to get my degree in English. If I'd said something outrageous about Henry James in a paper, and then "backed it up" by gesturing vaguely at a shelf of his works and saying "see for yourself" I'd have been laughed out of the department.

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[info]judywatt
2008-05-05 08:10 pm UTC (link)
I don't know if they teach critical thinking anymore to kids in general - if they do, it's not working. I learned debating way before college though - they used to teach it in high school, back in the olden days.

In college I took a lot of law classes - the equivalent of about a year of law school. I worked in law firms after that for years, and legal publishing - having to read law books every day for a living.

Anyway, I got really tired of what passes for "debate" online back in the late 90's. Too much flaming, and too many just plain stupid people online.

So now in my profile here I think I make it clear that my journal is not a discussion forum, and that while I may rant about things from time to time, I'm really not interested in debating anything with anyone here.

Sometimes people will post really stupid remarks to me anyway when I rant, but I usually just delete them and if they don't like it, they can just not read me.

It took me a long time to totally drop that "discussion forum" state of mind online, but once I did, it was a good thing. :)

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