paft ([info]paft) wrote,
@ 2008-04-25 12:02:00
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Entry tags:racism, sexism

Prejudice
Prejudice is fascinating, in all its forms. Over twenty years of posting political commentary online using my own, unmistakably feminine name, for instance, has been an object lesson in how some guys respond to the female voice.

I’m not saying that every man who argues with me is guilty of sexism, but there are cases where responders seem to be struggling to figure out exactly how and where I’m being “irrational” and working themselves into quite a dudgeon about it. This comes not so much from people who disagree with me politically as from people presumably on my own side of the political aisle, guys who refer to themselves as liberals or leftists or anything other than “conservative”

For instance, there was one guy I used to debate online who, after a few messages, invariably went into what I call “therapist” mode. In discussions relating to women’s issues he’d start asking me personal questions about my relationship with my husband, or whether I like the way I look, or how I felt about the whopping psychic trauma I presumably endured from that professor I once cited in passing as an example of casual sexism. I don’t want to do this guy an injustice. I never got the sense he was stalking me, and he certainly wasn’t one of those Slobbering Yahoos who, when they sense they’re losing ground in a debate with a woman, unzip themselves and start waving it at her.

But his approach always included the apparently unshakeable assumption that my disagreement with him had to be rooted in my emotions. After a while I began to suspect that he was reacting not to what I’d actually posted, but to the fact that I was the person posting it.

I think women as a rule are aware of this undercurrent, this assumption by so many men, even those who consider themselves liberal and broad-minded, who call themselves “feminists,” that someone posting under a female name must be on some level incompetent, illogical. Almost certainly women of a certain age are aware of it. We don’t speak up about it every time we encounter it because if we did we’d end up giving ourselves ulcers, but we do know it’s there, and there’s a lot we don’t say to our male friends and acquaintances about it.

When I consider this, and I think about how African Americans or other racial minorities must perceive whites, all the things they have probably noticed about assumptions held by me and other WASPs, assumptions we’re barely aware of – when I think of all the things my black friends, acquaintances and co-workers have probably noticed but left unsaid… It makes me shudder.



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[info]judywatt
2008-04-25 08:15 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you - I used to participate in and sometimes moderate poltical issues forums on CServe in the mid-90's, and I thought there was often obvious bias towards "female voices" in debates. Women were also a pretty small minority online in general back then, which did not help matters.

At one point after a lot of that sort of bias being felt, I created a second account with a gender-neutral name (I think it was Chris something), and went about posting my usual opinions in the usual debates, so I could test whether I would be treated differently in debates. Guess what, I was.

I never said whether I was male or female, but I could tell when people assumed I was male, which was most of the time when I used that name.

But that said, one of the worst experiences I ever had online though was in a "women's forum" that was supposedly feminist.

If you did not toe the party line very closely in that forum, you were kicked out. Male bashing was allowed, but no one was allowed to treat women the same way as men there.

If you appeared to want to treat men and women equally, and if you wanted the "no group bashing" group to apply to men as well as women, the moderators of that forum did not want you around.

So I got kicked out for not being "feminist" enough, which I thought was hilarious at the time.

Another horrible experience was when I belonged to the African American forum on CS, where I had been invited by a friend to join (I'm white but there were several other white members there and the friend thought I would enjoy a lot of the discussions about music and culture and so on).

Unfortunately I learned more about racism in that forum than I had ever seen or heard in my entire life, and it wasn't the white against black kind, it was the opposite.

Anyway, yeah, this is not a post-femninist world, but not all sexists are men either. Just like not all racists are white.

I think basically we're ALL sexist and racist to some extent, no matter which gender we are or which race or combination of races.

The best we can do is be aware of it in ourselves, not just other people, and try to overcome it.

The minute we start to think it's just OTHER people who are the problem, that's the minute we really need a trip to the clue machine.

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[info]paft
2008-04-26 03:07 pm UTC (link)
I've been on Compuserve (now Netscape forums) too. Up until fairly recently, I volunteered doing some moderating on the Political Debate Forum. Since I was the only female name doing this, the bias you note became even more obvious. There were guys who would go completely off the deep end when I moved their messages for profanity, personal attacks, etc.

I had a somewhat similar experience to yours a few years ago on Usenet Jewish forum. What caused me to leave was not being kicked off -- I left in disgust after reading a thread about how there needed to be a "final solution" (nudge-nudge-wink-wink) to the "Palestinian Problem."

People do love their hatreds.

I love debate. I love debating online. But I really think it's changed since the '80s. Back then, most of the people doing it were other people who loved debate and were interested in ideas. We now have an entire generation of young adults who grew up on Rush Limbaugh and who consider him a role model. They don't just dislike debate. They barely even have a handle on what it involves.


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